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Impact of Brexit on the UK: grounded planes, stockpiling food, brexodus...
#11
“The Leavers (of whom I am one) want to leave completely - 100%.”

That is very unlikely to be true. Many leave voters believed the undeliverable promises made in the referendum campaign. Out of the EU but retaining frictionless trade. And not to forget all the extra money that could be spent on the NHS.

“Both sides are calling for an election to sort things out.”

And what good would that do? Voting for yet other unsuitable politicians? The best effect of Brexit is that it has exposed the dysfunctional governance of the UK. It will take responsible British citizens many years to sort out their system, if at all possible.
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#12
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#13
[quote pid='255' dateline='1537429311']
“The Leavers (of whom I am one) want to leave completely - 100%.”

That is very unlikely to be true. Many leave voters believed the undeliverable promises made in the referendum campaign. Out of the EU but retaining frictionless trade. And not to forget all the extra money that could be spent on the NHS.

“Both sides are calling for an election to sort things out.”

And what good would that do? Voting for yet other unsuitable politicians? The best effect of Brexit is that it has exposed the dysfunctional governance of the UK. It will take responsible British citizens many years to sort out their system, if at all possible.
[/quote]

I agree that it has exposed just how incompetent and self-serving our current government is. It has also been very revealing of our media who have demonstrated a severe lack of clear objective reporting and instead towed the official line for government at the cost of public confidence. 

The media machine has previously been an unfailing resource for self-serving governments within the UK. The public's perception of the BBC as an neutral organisation made this all the more effective. Now that events have revealed the lack of neutrality in some of the driving forces behind the media we have a perfect opportunity for change. 
For too long people have voted against our own interests and in the interests of a few money-grabbing hit and run mercenaries.  From Thatcher on-wards we have had nothing but bandits in power. They have sold us down the river before abandoning for us to sunny holiday homes abroad. 

I know that the media has painted Corbyn as a bit of a crackpot, but this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. 
It is the circus that we currently live in that is ludicrous, and the only person calling it out for what it is, is himself vilified by the clowns around him.

First he was a Russian spy, then a racist who happens to have a career built on anti-racist movement, then a stalin-like dictator intent on purging his party. These kind of Hollywood theatrics are insulting to our intelligence. 
What will they think of next I wonder?
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#14
I find it impossible to have a direct conversation with you. I explain the British situation and attitudes, and you persist in misunderstanding them, usually with a gratuitous insult. 

The British are not 'begging' for anything. We just do not see our future as being inside the EU. You do not seem to understand that countries can have a perfectly reasonable existence outside the EU. We would be happy to trade with you on mutually agreeable terms, but if not we will trade with other people. We do not see this as a problem. 

Our politicians are, at the moment, engaged in trying to pretend that there is a 'middle way' - mainly to keep their party coalitions together. This cannot succeed, and the sooner it ends, the better.  You seem to believe that a 'middle way' is what Britain wants, and this is not true. Britain wants to leave. A powerful political clique, who have done well out of EU membership, wants Britain to remain, and you are seeing the power struggles as they desperately cling to the possibility that they can stop Brexit. Just do not mistake that for the will of the British people....
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#15
It is quite a moving narrative that you present us. The poor British people that want to leave the evil EU but held back by a nasty political clique. 

Oh no sorry, it was just another dodgy conspiracy theory! For who voted for these policians if not the British people? Yes, they themselves are responsible for the democracy in their country. Time to ‘take back control’ of some responsibility?

And would it be possible that you wake up to the fact that nearly half of the referendum voters wanted to stay in the EU? Statements like ‘Britain wants to leave’ are really too simplistic to be true.

Well, it appears that after leaving the EU, you seem to be stuck with the same clueless people you keep voting for to govern your nation. Good luck!

PS

If at any time you might suspect insults or misunderstandings, you might be mistaken. Serious criticism can also spring from friendly concern.
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#16
This is a reply to Ciaran. Ciaran, you complain that the Brits want all the benefits of membership and none of the obligations. I think, in part, that for most Brits many of the benefits of EU membership are seen simply as the "normal" way of doing things and they simply don't recognize that, for example, jumping on an airplane and flying to Greece, Spain, etc without needing a visa depends on the UK's adherence to EU laws and agreements. It is perceived as "normal" not as a benefit of membership. Of course, when that benefit of membership is no longer available, its loss will be interpreted not as a logical result of their choice but as a punishment inflicted by a vindictive EU.
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#17
"It is rather amazing how the Brits seem to have problems with grasping such rather simple legal things. It is impossible to have any meaningful negotiations with a country that does not even understand its legal status in the negotiations."

Brits ?   Please can you resist the temptation to patronise ? 
About 17 million people voted for Brexit of a population approaching 70m. As one of the 53 million I object to all of us here in the UK  being classified as a homogeneous group of the most ill informed and ignorant, even arrogant type. 
It is as bad as English nationalists using 'England' as an equivalent to the 'UK'.

Thanks. 
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#18
"I object to all of us here in the UK  being classified as a homogeneous group of the most ill informed and ignorant, even arrogant type. 
It is as bad as English nationalists using 'England' as an equivalent to the 'UK'. "

I believe the media in most of Europe does tend to focus on the Saint George flag waving types and otherwise ill informed types around here. 

This kind of imagery is presented alongside issues revolving around the fact that the UK voted to leave, linking the associations. 
i.e. here is a Nation that chose to leave + and here are some Idiots that we would never want to associate ourselves with who seem to hate us. 

Further disassociation is encouraged by highlighting some idiots xenophobia idiots, usually with some anti-EU mantra of some kind

The intention is discourage the idea of leaving by association. 
Unfortunately for us this means focusing on a minority of apes and and presenting them like the predominant perspective. 
Consequently the vast majority of us in the UK are being painted with the racist idiot brush.

In terms of political framework however, the British governing powers are guilty of haven acted obnoxiously in respect to what they will "accept" from the EU, and the EU has bent over backwards to accommodate us. The average member of the public here is hugely uniformed as to the workings of the greater network we have been a part of. We have left that to the government, who generally have found it in their interest to keep us in the dark. This of course is much easier to do on a island. 


What most Europeans cannot appreciate I think, is just how all encompassing the blanket of media spin is in the UK. How cocooned we are from events on the mainland.  
It is within this isolated little pocket of an island that free-market liberalism has advanced it's influence, that privatization and endless cuts to care have led our attention inwards to our own internal affairs, to government and their hypocrisy over the last 30 years.  

Anger and discontent in the way our country has disenfranchised us, has been churning away in this little laissez-faire economic playground for quite some time. The same trends continued regardless of which direction we voted, more taxes, more cuts, more privatization, more scaling back of public services, a war on the middle class, lower wages..

For the vast majority of working class living here, the constant struggle to provide a little security for oneself and family is pretty much all engaging and increasingly frustrating. If Nigel Farage had not come along to channel this energy someone else most certainly would have. Pent up anger is generally just happy for a direction and fairly non-discriminate when it does finally move. 

It is for these reasons that the majority of angry people the media is able to capture and associate with Brexit are low-income, low-education people that have a lot of miss-directed anger. They do not however constitute the majority of the UK or even of the Brexit vote itself and it is a shame that the people of the UK are all being tared by this brush and by the arrogance of our politicians of whom are a bad lot that we can do very little about currently.
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#19
Hi out is out.
I understand the frustration created by clichés. We all have to endure them. They are like a prison. Only humour helps us to not feel overwhelmed by them.

I don't think that mainland Europeans see the British people in such a generalized manner (the beer-drinking xenophobic unionjacked tourist). Many British people travel or live on our shores. And guess what. They are just like any of us. Varied.

Now about Brexit, it is true that the brexit vote has been described as xenophobic in some media while others would paint the remainers as treacherous. 

IMHO, there so many reasons for Brexit that it is difficult to sum them up in one or two words. Social media make it hard to express a nuanced view in general. 

Some of the causes are shared across countries. Disenfranchisement, education gap, geographical differences (small towns vs metropoles), loss of public services, income and social inequalities....
Some are specific to the UK: a reluctant member state, insularity, different historical perspectives, a bigger inequality gap, enduring influence of Thatcherism, institutional specifics (voting system, devolution....)...

It is a very simple list, unexhaustive, probably erroneous. Could you help us to have a more accurate view of the Brexit vote causes?
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#20
Couple of questions -  in all the discussions about disruptions to availability of goods and services, auto / aviation fuel  and electricity disruption is not mentioned at all in the same line as empty food shelves and non availability of food. Why? Are they governed by separate set of agreements outside the EU agreements?

Does NI backstop avoid mainland Britain becoming a rule taker without representation?

Finally , does the 2 year transition simply postpone cliff edge to a different date?

Thank you,
RI
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